tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23603046.post4893672452352182516..comments2023-05-14T05:58:07.794-07:00Comments on Languedoc Diary: A neutral venue: The Darwinian Delusion by John A. DavisonAlan Foxhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16470368958109056177noreply@blogger.comBlogger97125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23603046.post-42244520685472077472007-02-13T13:30:00.000-08:002007-02-13T13:30:00.000-08:00It appears that Martin's EvC thread has died a mis...It appears that Martin's EvC thread has died a miserable death.Doppelgangerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07019994267093407424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23603046.post-19928213236388676852007-02-09T10:29:00.000-08:002007-02-09T10:29:00.000-08:00Alan FoxBroom would not have known about the KT bo...Alan Fox<BR/><I><BR/>Broom would not have known about the KT boundary.<BR/></I><BR/><BR/>Had he known it, he would have became convinced darwinist.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23603046.post-29816389293107397712007-02-09T06:38:00.000-08:002007-02-09T06:38:00.000-08:00Broom also had a reputation for purposely producin...Broom also had a reputation for purposely producing outrageous claims in order to spark debate and discussion. His depiction of early man as a brutish canibalistic troglodyte is one example (apparently, he did not believe such a thing himself, he just wanted to get people fired-up and talking).Doppelgangerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07019994267093407424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23603046.post-13767797175871647722007-02-09T00:42:00.000-08:002007-02-09T00:42:00.000-08:00Broom would not have known about the KT boundaryBroom would not have known about the KT boundaryAlan Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16470368958109056177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23603046.post-30763519659479306802007-02-07T12:10:00.000-08:002007-02-07T12:10:00.000-08:00I entered it on EvC - "Is evolution of mammals fin...I entered it on EvC - "Is evolution of mammals finished?". Now it is in proposed new topic.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23603046.post-4938072199403993432007-02-07T05:12:00.000-08:002007-02-07T05:12:00.000-08:00Yeah, great.
What that has to do with anything is...Yeah, great.<br /><br />What that has to do with anything is the mystery.<br /><br />So what if evolution slowed down? What does that mean? That some "designer" designed it that way?<br /><br />If so, why? If something else, what?Doppelgangerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07019994267093407424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23603046.post-45662173885977370232007-02-07T03:36:00.000-08:002007-02-07T03:36:00.000-08:00VMartin
Why not flesh out your last post and I ca...VMartin<br /><br />Why not flesh out your last post and I can then use it to start a new thread. That will give you an opportunity to demolish Darwinism in a more visible manner.Alan Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16470368958109056177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23603046.post-33511734957511903672007-02-06T12:12:00.000-08:002007-02-06T12:12:00.000-08:00Doppelganger
O.K.
Please check statistics from
J...Doppelganger<br /><br />O.K.<br />Please check statistics from <br />John Day Fossil Beds National Monument which seems to have one of the best preserved continuum of mammalian fossils>:<br /><br />www.fs.fed.us/pnw/pubs/gtr_410/pg069-79.pdf<br /><br />I don't have installed acrobat reader so I do not see graphs but you should be able see that maximum diversity quote:<br /><br /><i><br />The period of 39 to 20 million years ago (John Day Forma-tion) seems to harbor the greatest diversity inknown fossils of families and genera.<br /></i><br /><br />Broom's explanation was that evolution slowed down. <br /><br /><br />Some other internet surfing quotation I have made before elsewhere:<br /><i><br />"The great diversity of Holarctic primates during the <br />Eocene indicates that at least 90% of modern diversity <br />would already have been reached by the Middle Eocene."</i><br /><br /><i><br />"A number of mammal orders show peaks of family diversity <br />around the Eocene-Oligocene boundary, such as <br />Soricomorpha, Rodentia, Primates, Artiodactyla and <br />Proboscidea."<br /></i><br /><br />berkeley.edu:<br /><i><br />"Perissodactyls were once much more<br />diverse" <br />.<br />.<br /><br />"Only seventeen species of perissodactyls remain on the Earth today, a shadow of the group's former glory".<br /></i><br /><br />and we may continue...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23603046.post-68716358449579639712007-02-06T09:55:00.000-08:002007-02-06T09:55:00.000-08:00I see what you mean, Doppelganger, Brad McFall has...I see what you mean, Doppelganger, Brad McFall has some singular views. Amazing what an assortment of beliefs, ideas, not to say ravings, get to squeeze into ID's big tent.Alan Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16470368958109056177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23603046.post-47072049536450551122007-02-06T09:04:00.000-08:002007-02-06T09:04:00.000-08:00This is rich...
Doppelganger.
I have no time dis...This is rich...<br /><br /><i>Doppelganger.<br /><br />I have no time discuss with you the issue. You are too lazy to find out any sources that even can support your phantasies.</i><br /><br />I have made no claims TO support at this time. I have been responding to YOUR claims. YOU are the one that presented a diagram that you apparently misinterpreted as supporting crazy John. At best, it is ambiguous on the issue.<br />But if you feel the need to insult me for not doing something there is no need fo rme to do, well you go right ahead. That is what you people do.<br /><br /><br /><i> First he claimed that differences of perissodactyla and artiodactyla is nowadays greater than in Eocene etc.. and at last he somehow admitted that diversities of mammalian families is nowadays lesser.</i><br /><br />Yeah, great, therefore.. what, exactly?<br /><br /><br /><i>Some citation of my claims you can find at ATbC where they were ignored. <br /><br />But might be I will sometimes open thread on the issue at EvC. Than you can present your ignorant darwinistic haughtiness openly.</i><br /><br /><br />Great. And you can then link to irrelevant diagrams that you cannot properly interpret and get all snooty and condescending when I point out that fact.<br /><br />By the way - I read some of your posts on EvC and you have not been faring very well over there, either. It appears you have been reduced to kibitzing with the resident hypermanic nut case.<br /><br />Fitting.Doppelgangerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07019994267093407424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23603046.post-55370999619504487952007-02-05T22:10:00.000-08:002007-02-05T22:10:00.000-08:00Doppelganger.
I have no time discuss with you the...Doppelganger.<br /><br />I have no time discuss with you the issue. You are too lazy to find out any sources that even can support your phantasies. You are waiting for me only to ridicule everything. You are not the right man. This issue I discussed more than 3 months in our forum with a Czech darwinists into depth. <br /><br />First he claimed that differences of perissodactyla and artiodactyla is nowadays greater than in Eocene etc.. and at last he somehow admitted that diversities of mammalian families is nowadays lesser.<br /><br />Some citation of my claims you can find at ATbC where they were ignored. <br /><br />But might be I will sometimes open thread on the issue at EvC. Than you can present your ignorant darwinistic haughtiness openly.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23603046.post-51232890508905085392007-02-05T12:16:00.000-08:002007-02-05T12:16:00.000-08:00V:
Even if I admit that "mammalian Order" is a hum...<i>V:<br />Even if I admit that "mammalian Order" is a human invention the fact will remain. We can focus our attention if you like on mammalian families instead. It's known - if you please will make some preliminary check on internet - that mammalian families diversity is nowadays only shadow of the former mammalian families diversity in Eocene (maybe carnivora and rodentia has the same diversity). Btw. all nowadays mammalian body plans can be traced down to Eocene. What would you like to discuss - diversity of artiodactyla or perisodactyla in Eocene and now? </i><br /><br />I would like to discuss the fact that you are now trying tio change the subject. YOU linked to a diagram that you claim supports one of crazy John's Manifesto claims. You apparently did not understand how to interpret it. I point out that it actually indicates a problem for crazy John's claim. Now you tell me to look to the internet for better souces.<br /><br />Here is an idea - why don't YOU only refer to things that you actually understand. Only link to web sites that <b>actually</b> might support your position. That way, when/if I respond to it, you will not be able to simply blow off my response by referring to somethign else.<br /><br />I see no problem with the fact that "new" diversity appears to be <br />arising at a decrasing rate. We have a limited window of opportunity to observe these things. What will such a diagram look like 1,000,000 years form now? Who knows. But since taxonomy is subjective, it might look totally different. <br /><br /><br /><i>Certainly you should not discuss issue using the chart and your feelings but you should use instead modern researches on the issue from prominenmt scientist like Gingerich etc.</i><br /><br /><br />I discussed the issue by looking at the chart YOU supplied, which I assume YOU thought sufficiently informative to present as supporting your positon. I am sorry it does not do so, but don't try to blame me for the fact that you misinterpreted it.<br /><br /><br /><i>Anyway it's a pity we are in this dying forum where nobody is going by and where John seems to be banned. </i><br /><br />Crazy John is not banned, as has been explained to you repeatedly. Most likely he just forgot his password, as he has done on several occasions on several websites. <br /><br />If you are going to ignore the questions I ask of you and/or the issues I discuss in response to questions/issues you have brought up in favor of producing a new series fo questions/concwerns with each reply, I will not waste my time engaging you. Doing that is a sign of your inability to deal with the issues you bring up in the first place.<br /><br />So stop bringing up new issues each time while ignoring the old or I'm done with you.Doppelgangerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07019994267093407424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23603046.post-40241349251928925832007-02-05T12:05:00.000-08:002007-02-05T12:05:00.000-08:00doppelganger:
Even if I admit that "mammalian Ord...doppelganger:<br /><br />Even if I admit that "mammalian Order" is a human invention the fact will remain. We can focus our attention if you like on mammalian families instead. It's known - if you please will make some preliminary check on internet - that mammalian families diversity is nowadays only shadow of the former mammalian families diversity in Eocene (maybe carnivora and rodentia has the same diversity). Btw. all nowadays mammalian body plans can be traced down to Eocene. What would you like to discuss - diversity of artiodactyla or perisodactyla in Eocene and now? <br /><br />Certainly you should not discuss issue using the chart and your feelings but you should use instead modern researches on the issue from prominenmt scientist like Gingerich etc.<br /> <br />Anyway it's a pity we are in this dying forum where nobody is going by and where John seems to be banned.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23603046.post-1959174121808069042007-02-05T07:41:00.000-08:002007-02-05T07:41:00.000-08:00V:
I also do not see any flaw in Broom's claim tha...<i>V:<br />I also do not see any flaw in Broom's claim that no mammalian order aroused from Eocene and that evolution at least slowed down.<br /><br />dop:<br />Oh, YOU don't? And what is your famous name and credentials?<br /><br /><br />V:<br />I have never claimed that to believe Broom's or Davison's claim necessitates to be famous, or did I? </i><br /><br />It is a shame that you cannot recognize a parapherase of your own words used against you. Allow me to remind you what YOU wrote to me:<br /><br />"Or you must be really very great man and philosopher too if you dismiss all of it. Whats your famous name please?"<br /><br />as if only if I were 'famous' could I dare disagree wtih crazy John...<br /><br /><i>What I see is this chart of Adaptive Radiation of Mammalian Orders:<br />...<br />This chart - I would say - literally support Broom's claim from 1951 that no mammalian order aroused after Eocene. But the chart is from 2005 and might be<br />"outdated". Might be there are some new information which are up-to-date and contradicts substantially to the chart from 2005 and Broom's claim . Do you have such information? </i><br /><br />What, exactly, does that 'prove'? There are many changes that occur during that period - note how the 'lines' get thicker and thinner. Note also that naming things and classifying things is a subjective endeavor. By the way - that very chart shows the emergence of a whole new order in the Oligocene.<br />And also by the way - that whole chart is re: Orders, and thus when the lines get thicker, that means that there are more groups below the level of Order - which means that there are 'new' Families and thus new genera.<br />You have thus just provided a data point for the old Gould adage - 'When you know a little science, the claims of creationists (or in this case, anti-Darwinian crackpots) can seem to make sense. When you know a lot of science, you can see how ridiculous their claims really are.'<br /><br /><i>dop:<br />You are just easily taken in by his charm, I suppose.<br /><br />V:<br />Manifesto is a good work. </i><br /><br />To the layman with a predicpositon to dismiss legitimate "pro-evolution" science, I suppose.<br /><br /><i>Supported by view of many former and contemporary scientists that mimicry in insect realm cannot be explained away by RM and NS. That behind evolution of mimicry stands other forces (internal factors, Goethian Gestaltung etc...).</i><br /><br />So you are focusing on a single aspect of'Manifesto' and declaring the whole thing 'good.' Sorry, I looked at is in termsof the legitimacyof his citations and conclusions and found it severely wanting.Doppelgangerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07019994267093407424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23603046.post-62072022910047160222007-02-04T04:52:00.000-08:002007-02-04T04:52:00.000-08:00John certainly declared he would not post here aga...John certainly declared he would not post here again. There is nothing preventing him from posting here, if he changes his mind.<br /><br />Regarding your ban at AtBC, I am taking your response as "don't bother". Let me know if this is incorrect. Otherwise, good luck to you, too.Alan Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16470368958109056177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23603046.post-2561838738679666642007-02-04T04:27:00.000-08:002007-02-04T04:27:00.000-08:00It's on you - ask AtBC admins or not, how do you l...It's on you - ask AtBC admins or not, how do you like. I do not care.<br /><br />In case John is not banned here and he decided to post here not anymore (what I would appreciated) it was my pleasure too.<br /><br />Good luck.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23603046.post-16862898889058899692007-02-04T01:42:00.000-08:002007-02-04T01:42:00.000-08:00Oh please VMartin,
John is not blocked, has never...Oh please VMartin,<br /><br /><b>John is not blocked, has never been blocked and will never be blocked from posting here.</b><br /><br />I never subscribed to the idea that you are John's sockpuppet, and have said so. Do you want me to request the AtBC mods to lift your ban?<br /><br />I have nothing to do with moderation decisions at AtBC, so I can't promise it will be lifted, but if you want resume posting there, I will do my best. <br /><br />So, do you want me to ask the mods to reinstate your posting privileges? It is not a difficult or trick question.<br /><br />Any possibility you might want to start answering the odd question, just to add some point to these exchanges?Alan Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16470368958109056177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23603046.post-71990985647354487912007-02-04T00:52:00.000-08:002007-02-04T00:52:00.000-08:00Alan Fox:
BTW, VMartin, do you want to have your ...Alan Fox:<br /><i><br />BTW, VMartin, do you want to have your ban at AtBC revoked?<br /></i><br /><br />Alan, first of all you should enable John to post here. It's really weird that he cannot post comments to his own article, dont' you think? I don't know how you manage to block him - do you use cookies? <br /><br />As to the AtBC I was rejected under pretext I am John. You know very well that it is a lie (and admins there know it as well). So why should I prove you and your cronies there I am not John? You have done it deliberately, so I do not underestand what is this your masquarade about "revoking the ban" all about.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23603046.post-74304622442518248512007-02-03T16:26:00.000-08:002007-02-03T16:26:00.000-08:00BTW, VMartin, do you want to have your ban at AtBC...BTW, VMartin, do you want to have your ban at AtBC revoked?Alan Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16470368958109056177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23603046.post-86984080303759074422007-02-03T16:13:00.000-08:002007-02-03T16:13:00.000-08:00Let's litle(sic) turn the question Alan
Well, how...<i>Let's litle(sic) turn the question Alan</i><br /><br />Well, how things usually work in blogdom is you answer my question, then I answer yours.<br /><br /><i>Do you have some kind of atheistic relief with idea that you share a common ancestor with chimpanzees?</i><br /><br />Not 100% sure what you are asking here. If the question is "does it concern me that I share an ancestor with <i>Pan troglodytes</i>?", the answer is no.<br /><br />What is your academic background? Do you have any academic interests or credentials?Alan Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16470368958109056177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23603046.post-46635268918718818452007-02-03T11:41:00.000-08:002007-02-03T11:41:00.000-08:00Do you have some kind of religious allergy to the ...<i><br />Do you have some kind of religious allergy to the idea that you share a common ancestor with chimpanzees?<br /></i><br />Let's litle turn the question Alan:<br />Do you have some kind of atheistic relief with idea that you share a common ancestor with chimpanzees? <br /><br /><i><br />John does not dispute common descent as far as I am aware, BTW.<br /></i><br /><br />Common descent has certainly different meaning accepting saltationism, don't you mean?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23603046.post-33267776428923279542007-02-03T09:57:00.000-08:002007-02-03T09:57:00.000-08:00All good arguments, VMartin. I am beginning to see...All good arguments, VMartin. I am beginning to see the flaws in common descent, myself, now.<br /><br />So does the sarcasm indicate that you have some scientific education and/or qualifications? You only seem to be aware of some parody of evolutionary theory. Do you have some kind of religious allergy to the idea that you share a common ancestor with chimpanzees? John does not dispute common descent as far as I am aware, BTW.Alan Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16470368958109056177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23603046.post-51043640076512541792007-02-03T09:46:00.000-08:002007-02-03T09:46:00.000-08:00So, you have no scientific background. Do you thin...<i><br />So, you have no scientific background. Do you think you should, perhaps, then learn a little about the theory of evolution before dismissing it so glibly?<br /></i><br /><br />Why not. What would you reccomend me? I like at most ilustrated tales how a crocodile became feathered bird jumping down from trees preying on flying insects.<br /><br />I also appreciate Darwin's cute observation how swiming bushy bear became Ondocetti.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23603046.post-40475976279844500562007-02-03T09:40:00.000-08:002007-02-03T09:40:00.000-08:00From Larry Moran's Blog
As you see the mean desir...From <a href="http://sandwalk.blogspot.com/2007/01/recognize-this-guy.html#comment-6586072658360927660">Larry Moran's Blog</a><br /><br /><i>As you see the mean desire with darwinism obsessed is this one - to hold all opponents locked in asylum. Something communists did in reality with disidents. No wonder - communism and darwinism are the same naturalistic cesspool from the midst 19 century. Their followers believe that life is a pure chance and consider ancient fish to be their predecessor.<br /><br />Neverthenless Alan Fox seems to be posessed also with abusing John Davison (btw. as hypocrite he never do this in his dying blog that John revived.)</i><br /><br />How am I a hypocrite, VMartin? John is the one who barged in to Larry Moran's blog with his unchanging tirades against all and sundry. If you think this is normal behaviour for an 80 year old ex biology (associate) professor, you must be a little deluded yourself.Alan Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16470368958109056177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23603046.post-34245814648777458242007-02-03T08:53:00.000-08:002007-02-03T08:53:00.000-08:00No, you misunderstand, VMartin. If you want to int...No, you misunderstand, VMartin. If you want to introduce a thread here, and if you email the text to me (alan_foxAThotmail.com - change AT for@) I will enter it as a thread. I will also advertise the thread at AtBC. <br /><br />Regarding your ban at AtBC, I will, if you wish, make representation to the moderators that the ban be reversed, but I am only an occasional poster there, so I cannot promise that it will happen. I suspect they may consider a probationary period, and would expect you to keep board rules, especially the one forbidding relaying messages from banned users. (John is banned for effectively calling the board owner a Nazi [reference is available]) They have also just tightened up their policy on name-calling and profane language, so, if they decide to reinstate your membership, you should find people a little more polite.<br /><br />So, you have no scientific background. Do you think you should, perhaps, then learn a little about the theory of evolution before dismissing it so glibly?Alan Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16470368958109056177noreply@blogger.com